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On Civilization, feat. Cliff Dunning (of Earth Ancients) | TRACES Appendix 30
A conversation with Cliff Dunning about ancient history, known and unknown civilizations, the consensus view of history, challenges to that view, charting a path toward the future, embracing our destiny, and more.
Two things:
- PRE-ORDER TRACES: A PSY-FI NOVEL NOW (https://ccblife.gumroad.com/l/traces)
- Also, who are you? Get a draft of TRACES if you fill out this form (https://forms.gle/rFnVFrCNUAJz7Fvn7)
As always, find me at cristian@ccb.life
About the Guest:
Cliff Dunning is a podcast producer and host of the award-winning podcast Earth Ancients and the recently launched Destiny. He writes for several magazines and is a regular guest on a variety of television, podcast, and radio programs. He lives in El Sobrante, California.
Check out Earth Ancients here! ( https://youtube.com/@EarthAncientsOfficial )
Set Up:
Camera: https://amzn.to/3PZVscb (don't laugh)
Microphone: https://amzn.to/46f3pB5
Teleprompter Stand: https://amzn.to/3tgS98y
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Timestamps:
00:00 Welcome to the Show: Cliff Dunning's Introduction
00:23 Exploring Ancient Civilizations and Unknown Cultures
01:52 The Intersection of Ancient Wisdom and Modern Spirituality
04:26 Challenging the Consensus View of History
06:19 Unveiling Hidden Histories: New Archaeological Discoveries
11:10 The Mysteries of Ancient Technology and Energy
20:08 The Global Phenomenon of Ancient Architectural Precision
24:59 Reconnecting with Earth's Natural Energies
30:37 The Global Exchange of Ancient Knowledge
36:12 Questioning the Western Narrative of Human Evolution
39:56 Challenging Historical Narratives and the Pace of Change
41:55 The Impact of Digital Platforms on Information Dissemination
43:10 The Future of AI in Research and Information Analysis
45:47 Personal Growth and the Power of Meditation
46:37 The Evolution of Podcasting and Its Influence
59:46 Consistency, Passion, and the Art of Podcasting
01:08:55 Learning from the Past to Navigate the Future
Mr. Cliff Dunning, thank you for being on the show.
Track 1:My pleasure. Great to have, great to be on your program.
cristian_1_04-11-2024_144751:Um, so Cliff, why don't we begin with what you do.
Track 1:Uh, I am a podcast producer. I produce two podcasts every week. Uh, the most noted is the award winning Earth Ancients, which comes out every Saturday. And, uh, that covers known and unknown civilizations. When I say known, those are, uh, documented civilizations, cultures who have, uh, been around for thousands of years. And then the unknown side of it are civilizations that are slowly emerging through new research. And we feature professionals, academic scientists, archaeologists. as well as field, uh, individuals who are doing their own study. Uh, we call them independent researchers and the, between the two, we have a nice mix of, uh, you know, conventional Egyptology or South American studies or American studies. And then we have the alternative side of it, which is people who are Making profound discoveries of cultures who we may not know about fall in an area that is before our written history. So they typically get ignored because we have no reference to them. And so that's Earth Agents. And then on Wednesday, the sister to Earth Agents is a program called Destiny. And that has to do with personal growth, Well, this and spirituality and the funny thing about it is that I did that because I was a program director for conferences on those topics, and they fit perfectly when it comes to ancient culture,
cristian_1_04-11-2024_144751:hmm.
Track 1:that early people were more in tune with the earth. Then we are today. And so when you're talking about meditation, when you're talking about yoga, when you're talking about, uh, you know, spiritual growth, these are all things that are discussed in Hindu literature and in ancient culture. So they tie in really nicely. So I do those every week and I'm also an author of a number of books and I'm committed to write a couple more right now and I'm just kind
cristian_1_04-11-2024_144751:hmm. Mm
Track 1:best to find time to do so.
cristian_1_04-11-2024_144751:That's a lot on your plate, I mean. But then, I want to highlight the fact that you're, you're into these two broad sets of topics. Um, because those are sort of two sets of topics that have motivated me, motivated me my whole life. I, uh, I read this book. I don't know. I think I was 13 or 14 called civilization one. And, uh, it was just, uh, you know, it was the, the, the chink in the armor that started, you know, a line of questioning that was, okay, wait a minute. What is this? Thing that we're in that we're a part of that. If we don't figure out our past, we're navigating our future incorrectly. Um, and, and then there's competing forces. You mentioned like, you know, the call it academic establishment versus independent researchers versus people in the business of spreading ideas that have vested interest in some of those ideas. Going is spreading or not. Um, and so there's competing forces and we're left very lonely in the project of trying to figure out what is actually going on. Um, so it was really awesome when we met at that event a few weeks ago that we connected sort of on a local level, but also on a sort of broader interest, broader interest level. Um, and, and, you know, they're both subjects that require a deep amount of passion. Um, you sort of like, you, you, you don't find people who are just mid about them. Um, and, and I think that's really exciting. So what I hope to do in this conversation today is talk a little bit about that tension that exists between the, um, let's call it the consensus view of History versus the, uh, the evidence that may, uh, uh, put an affront to that. And it's sort of like through a conversation with you. Um, so why don't we begin with what you think the consensus history is,
Track 1:So this is what What I'm fascinated in is that when we deal with our current history or the historians that write our history, these are anthropologists, archaeologists, Egyptologists, other cultural or civilization specialists that fall within there. You can also, you know, bring up the geology, chemistry, a little bit of physics, and a little bit of engineering. And what we're coming to, at least what we're And Earth Angels are coming to understand is you're only as good as your education. So if you're classically trained, academically trained as an archaeologist or an anthropologist, you only are allowed to read from books that right now are outdated. 150 to 100 years old on known civilizations, Sumerian, dynastic Egyptians, uh, the Maya cultures that we have excavated. And we understand when it gets to discoveries that exceed the time limitations of those cultures I just mentioned, then science falls off the cliff because they can't, for the most part, They can't stretch beyond those purviews. The Sumerians were roughly 4, 000, 5, 000 years ago. The dynastic Egyptians or pre dynastics were six, 7, 000 years ago. Just today, there was an article that came out that a Uh, underwater exhibition, discovery, a, uh, underwater city off of the Indian Coast dated at 9, 500 years old. They found artifacts that they, uh, carbon dated. They found, uh. evidence through the building and through, uh, also, uh, clay studies that throw our understanding of our, our past out the window. This is a very sophisticated city they found. We also see cities like this in, uh, South America that date beyond our traditional understanding. So when we have these problems, uh, what happens a lot of time is that they are, uh, And this is a great example for Egypt is that they're suppressed. They're not released to the general public. They are, uh, put aside and ignored. And so. It's only through the efforts of non academics that we get a sense of these cultures. People like Graham Hancock, Robert Bavall, um, and I could give you an encyclopedia of independent researchers, some in the academic field, who are showing us that our history needs to be expanded. So the real problem is reaching beyond our history books. And looking for data on these new discoveries in there. These new discoveries. literally are happening every week.
cristian_1_04-11-2024_144751:And there's, there's an interesting point there that is that we, we take the timeline of events. Of what happened in history and some of those events we can, uh, assess more reliably because we witnessed them ourselves. And so we can check the timeline against our personal experience or our parents experience or something like that. Um, but as you get closer to the beginning of history and the beginning of recorded stuff, um. It gets much harder to know exactly when something happened, right? You find a plate in the middle of the jungle. And so there was this evolution of technology that probably wasn't originally from the realm of archaeology. It was like radiocarbon dating or things like that, physics, uh, that enabled certain claims to be made about the timeline. But then you sort of start adding those things together in terms of all the layers, right? That could go wrong from, you know, what the model that you end up with versus the data in the, in the field. Um, and it's, and it starts to paint this really crazy picture of like, Oh, these things that we've taken for granted. Um, I remember for example, I, I watched the Oliver Stone documentary Uh, on World War Two on Netflix for the first time, and that challenged my entire notion of what I thought history was, and the, you know, the configuration of the world as it applies to very modern things. But if you extract that, you know, 10, 000 years past, um, and I think that there's interesting things with sites like, uh, Gobekli Tepe, where, uh, Just no matter how you slice it, this thing is, is, you know, 12, 000 years old or 9, 000 years old. I forget exactly the date. You can't, it was buried and you can just date the top layer and you can know exactly when that layer was around. Um, and that puts the entire thing into question because then your time, your sense of time is all wrong. Mm
Track 1:Yeah. It go back. The debt, uh, Tempe is a real problem, uh, for a lot of scientists and historians because the dates are so old and they're at the end of the ice age and, you know, 12, 000 plus years ago. And that's just one of many of these temples that are Cut into the ground. Uh, that's only just one of hundreds that haven't been excavated. So what happens if they find one that's dated to 20, 000 years? This is why I think they're so slow at excavating the new ones that are close by. Now there's another place called Karahan Tepe that's about 100 miles east of Gobekli Tepe. It's dated to about 16, 000 years in the past. And it has the same kind of under the surface build, uh, construction. It's got columns. It's got animals and human figures intertwined. And it looks like It is after a devastating event of some kind because they covered it up, uh, and then we're looking at it now. So these, these discoveries are just changing our understanding of history. It's pretty amazing. Now, one of the things I want to mention really quickly is the, Ancient cultures in India, notably the Hindu, developed a cyclic program called yugas. Have you heard of the yugas?
cristian_1_04-11-2024_144751:Yeah.
Track 1:And the yugas are 2, 700 year cycles and they don't really know where they they evolve from, most notably in very advanced early civilization, but they they show four cycles Uh, uh, positive growth and then four cycles of negative growth. And we're in the, uh, later part of the cycle where we're kind of in the dark ages a bit. Slowly coming out. But when you look at these cycles and you kind of focus on history, the earliest cycles and the middle, middle cycles all are technological, technologically focused. And, but they're not. They're not based on the technology that we think a number of engineers that we have had on our program believe that the previous period, the Dupa period, the science was very advanced, but they had a different physics. A physics of tapping into earth-based energy, teleric energy. geomagnetic fields, uh, gravity, and building technology around this. This is one of the problems that we have discovered is, uh, it's the reason we don't find a lot of technology from the previous epoch, because it's around us. It's in pyramids, both Mayan, Chinese, and Egyptian pyramids. It's in, uh, underground tunnel systems that tap these energies. So these earlier periods, uh, are slowly becoming available to us so we understand who these early people were. We know they're Homo sapiens sapiens, but we don't, we now are understanding that they were very scientifically focused, but using a different physics.
cristian_1_04-11-2024_144751:Mm hmm. There's
Track 1:of important.
cristian_1_04-11-2024_144751:no, and I think that there's, I think there was a more popular notion about the cyclical nature of time that you don't even have to resort to ancient traditions like you're the, the, I forget what it's called, the fourth turning or the, the 80 year cycles of cycles. You know, it's the same, the same four cycles, but in an 80 year period, just, you know, a microcosm of the bigger, um, and, and then you think about, okay, wait a minute. So how, how bad does it get when it got really bad and how good does it get when it gets really good? Um, and we don't, we have no idea because we live in this. This really bizarre world where there are so many incredible things about it, but so many things that are so flawed and so wrong. And so I think we're in this very sort of adolescent position to figure out like, and it sounds like, you know, adolescence itself where it's like, okay, it's been, you know, turbulent, turbulent few millennia, uh, but you know, we're, we're approaching something. So that's on the, on the, on the topic of time. And then on the, on the other component about the, the evidence that we see about, um, uh, technology that would exist in pyramids or things like that. Right. There's, there's something that I've always found really interesting. That is, um, these are gargantuan amounts of effort required to build these things.
Track 1:Oh God, yeah.
cristian_1_04-11-2024_144751:I mean, just with the resources we have today and the ability that we have today of not actually have to do labor ourselves through technology, um, like we could probably build a pyramid. I mean, I'm sure we could,
Track 1:We could, it would cost tens of billions of dollars and be one of the biggest, uh, projects we could think of, but we could pull it off right now.
cristian_1_04-11-2024_144751:Yeah, that's what I think too. but but then, then it gets to the second question that is, but why would you do that? Why would you decide to do something that has this set of features about it? You know, um, and yeah, and then, well, why don't we, well, why don't we go there a little bit and say, okay, you know, we can't talk ancient history without talking about the pyramids. Um, what are some of the properties of the pyramids that sort of hint at, um, let's say, alternate explanations about, uh, our past?
Track 1:Right. Well, the big grand pyramid is Khufu's pyramid and it's, uh, associated with him because they found his cartouche and there's a, uh, Sphinx, uh, stele where his name is mentioned a couple of times as the builder, but more and more people are thinking that he was the great repair or update, uh, pharaoh of the Khufu pyramid. Uh, and we know this because if you go to the, have you been inside the pyramid?
cristian_1_04-11-2024_144751:No, I would, I mean, I would love to. And,
Track 1:blocks is put 2. 5 tons and the interior. is made up of slabs of granite that average about 50 tons. But the most important thing about this pyramid, the Khufu Pyramid, is that when engineers look at it, it looks like there's, it's a, it's a, uh, precision carved, uh, interior. So there's, what we know now is the king and the queen's chamber. There's the grand gallery. And there's a subterranean chamber, which goes deep about 150 feet under the pyramid. But what we have learned through, uh, people like Chris Dunn, who's a NASA engineer, is that these, uh, the interior Was cut with such a level of precision and there is residue of various chemical compounds on different parts of the wall. His belief, his hypothesis is that there was some form of combustion that took place in these interior rooms. And recently NASA scanned the interior as well as the exterior of the Khufu Pyramid. And they found that it hooks up to a tunnel system that delivered water. To this bottom or subterranean chamber. So they believe that the water was pumped into the Kings and Queens chamber, which are rooms and through some form of combustion energy was produced. And this is the theory, uh, that has taken place. What we don't know is when it was built, whoever built it is, is, uh, the definition is an earth based scientist because they're not using a Nuclear, uh, fusion technology. They're not, you know, using turbines. They are using gravity, telluric energy, hydrogen passed through into this chamber, and water and some other chemicals. We're not quite sure what they could have been, but some form of combustion or energy generation was produced. in that grand pyramid. So, and we do, we also see this now in the work of John Burke, who was down in Guatemala to some of the oldest pyramids in Tikal. He measured the energy coming out of the world pyramid, which is one of the oldest parts of Tikal, the Mayan city there. And at 2 PM through 4 PM, the energy that's generated, uh, from that pyramid is enough to, uh, power small devices as well as what they do now is, uh, generate, uh, greater seed propagation. They put corn seeds on there and they, it changes interior of the, uh, of the corn and they can grow much more fruitful, much larger. And, and, uh, that's not the original reason they built the pyramid. Other reasons that we don't. These are, these pyramids and these types of structures are. another time period, another science and physics that we're just getting a hint of in the last maybe five years.
cristian_1_04-11-2024_144751:and I think there's, yeah, and I think it's like extra crazy if you think about we don't know when they were built. Uh, you know, how long does it take for something like that to erode? What do you make of the, um, astrological component and the, the astronomical alignment of these structures?
Track 1:Well, it's really looking more like our ancestors really had a connection to the cosmological, uh, uh, planetary energetics. Astrology is all about how other planets and, uh, uh, star systems, constellations affect us on a physical level. And good Hindu astrologers can not only predict how your health is going to be past, present, and future, they can also give you a sense of What to look forward to business wise, prosperity, what relationships to look forward to. And it's all based on the time you were born, the day you were born and where you were born. The, the, um, dynastic Egyptians took it one step further. They had temples that were aligned. In fact, if you look at both the Maya and the Egyptian dynastic civic areas, temples, pyramids, buildings were all aligned to the star constellations. As an, as an example, the great pyramids of Giza are aligned to the Orion constellation. But what does that mean when they, when you say they're aligned? The belief was that by aligning These buildings on earth to these constellations, you are plugging into them.
cristian_1_04-11-2024_144751:Hmm.
Track 1:the ancient term was as above so below. So there's their belief is, and we're just beginning to measure this and understand what, why they would do this. They believe that by connecting with these ancient, ancient star systems, you would connect with the energy that they produce. And I gave an example of astrology, which is a personal energy connection, but on a bigger scale, earth, Or these, uh, civilizations being plugged into these constellations means that there's an energy connection that we don't understand, but it's, on some level, it must be helping the Earth, the planet, and more than that, even though those civilizations have died off, when they were active, they must have been just pumping out energy, and their culture must have been just refined and, uh, I would think very, very healthy, the thing about it is that it's like, how do you measure that energy? Well, we don't, we're not quite there yet, but it was important enough for our ancestors. And we see it, like I said, in Egypt and, and, and, uh, Yucatan and in Mexico at the Maya, it was important enough for them to architecturally design their entire, uh, uh, civic areas to align with these cosmological planets. It's just amazing.
cristian_1_04-11-2024_144751:There's, yeah, there, there's, there's a couple of things that always stood out to me. There's the fact that, uh, There was such a degree of precision when planning these things out. Um, for instance, you know, like, um, uh, aligning, uh, a building with, uh, you know, summer solstice or something like that, where you sort of like, But then it's sort of this magical experience. Like once the building is, uh, is, you know, enabled or is launched, released to the public, or you know, like it's made available, you get one day a year to see if you get the Bye. The snapshot, you know, like the perfect sunrise as it, you know, is perfectly centered off between the gates or something like that. And there's no way to record that thing. There's no way to, there's no Instagram. There's nothing, there's no way to do that. You just have to be there one day a year, um, and witness perfection. And like humans did that. Um, I think that degree of precision is like just almost unfathomable. To go from zero to one, like how did we go from nothing to calculating, um, movements of celestial bodies with such precision at, in timeframes that we, that don't aren't explained by the current timeline. So, like, we know when certain math was developed and how was it, how, so how did they do it before, um, that kind of thing. And then there's another layer, which I want to ask you about, which is what do you make of it being a global phenomenon? Why is it distributed thousands of miles apart?
Track 1:You mean these ancient centers?
cristian_1_04-11-2024_144751:Yeah.
Track 1:Um, well, I mean, I kind of hinted at it in the very beginning, those early people, Didn't have Wi Fi, didn't have the internet, didn't have, uh, uh, Interference from unseen wave systems, which are not really good for us because We're losing the sensitivity to earth. This is why on destiny, I suggest that people get out and walk in nature as much as possible to reconnect. Those early people were so fine tuned to the earth that they could feel telluric energy, geomagnetic changes, gravity. They feel the connection with other planetary systems. They were taught how to understand how to work with them and how to harness. Those energies and what we've lost that we've completely lost it. And I think it's really. I'm kind of hoping at some point Wi Fi will veer off into some more, uh, less invasive technology so we can gain back our tuition, our sensitivities to energy. I, I am a Reiki.
cristian_1_04-11-2024_144751:Hm.
Track 1:I was trained to use subtle energy. The term that we use is universal, uh, uh, energy. Uh, and when I put my hands on somebody, I can feel what's going on with them, but I don't have a, uh, ego involved. I don't go, well, I'm going to heal this person. It comes through me and I just do my thing. Let the energy go where it needs to go on a person who may be ill. And so I have a sensitivity to some of these places that you're talking about. Uh, and I've been to quite a few of them. I haven't been in China yet. And you go, as an example, you go to like Hathor temple in Uh, Abydos, uh, Egypt, that temple was designed for healing. So, you give the example of like the spring equinox, or the summer, fall, winter, solstice equinoxes, and those are the high points where the energy is the highest, where you can feel the frequencies. Hathor, is made and there's rooms different rooms for birthing for degenerative disease for enlightenment for whatever healing bones you go to each one of those rooms and if you quiet yourself for a few minutes They're tuned in a certain way. So you can feel like, you know, if you put your finger on a, on a battery and you get that little shock, of the rooms actually feel like that. It's like, it's a slow, undulating wave passing through your body. And some people have measured it, but it's not something we, we can actually, uh, measure with a great deal of, with, with a great deal of accuracy because it's like, it's between gravity and time. And, uh, telluric field energy, which is coming up from the earth too. So it's somewhere in that. middle spectrum that they were able to tune this temple and the pharaoh's wives would go there to have their children and there was ceremony there and it's a it was occupied continuously they say it's only three or four thousand years but It's sitting on top of an earlier pyramid or a earlier temple that they haven't dated yet. And I bet you two to one, if they ever get down there and did, it's going to be the 12
cristian_1_04-11-2024_144751:The
Track 1:years ago.
cristian_1_04-11-2024_144751:yeah. The, uh, the impact date. Um, the, Um, there's, there's a couple points there that I wanna riff off that, that are, you know, I think that the thi that the subjective feeling that you're describing around the energy of a given room, um, is basically the science of architecture, right? It's not, it's not a. An insane thing to say that like certain buildings are designed to evoke certain emotions in people or certain, you know, functionality in people, um, you see places of worship have, you know, similar patterns. You see places of healing, like hospitals and things like that, police stations that, like, they, they sort of take the shape that is, you know, Sort of like tuned to their function, right? Um, and then you, you, you know, and I could, I mean, I, you get lost in the, um, proportions, the recurring proportions that you find in the sizes of these rooms and the relationship between dimensions. Uh, in these rooms, uh, and how they reappear in music and how they reappear in astronomy and how they reappear in, uh, so many other places. And this is the whole, uh, Randall Carson, sacred geometry aspect of it. Um, so there's that, which I can't, I can't, I like, I can't help myself from mentioning. There's the other part that I want to sort of, uh, Double click with you because I think it was interesting when you said they didn't have Wi Fi. I agree. It probably wasn't Wi Fi. I mean, all odds are it wasn't Wi Fi. But because you have this global phenomenon happening across continents, across oceans, um, across hemispheres, it appears that there was some kind of global coordination mechanism. Right. Or there, there's some kind of way that they're all oriented around the same phenomenon. Like, why is it that they're, you know, and, and so what's that about? Like, how do you, so what do you think of that
Track 1:So it's one of the biggest problems archaeologists have is called diffusion. And diffusion means that there is cultural exchange of technology, of, of, uh, uh, theory, of lifestyle, of civic, uh, development. And the reason that the archaeologists, uh, don't believe in it, it would mean that people from Europe traveled to the Americas. People from China traveled to the Americas. South Americans traveled to Present day Australia. They cannot get their heads around the fact that if there are similarities in a culture, like as a great example, the Olmec are very Asiatic looking and we can't get our head around the fact that there's Chinese scientists that believe that the Olmec come from a very late okay, culture in China. And that was, that would be called cultural exchange or diffusion. So, uh, the challenge that, that is placed upon science is how do we make sense of this? And this is where we go. They, they come up to a brick wall again, because they can't see beyond it or think about a possible solution or be more flexible, then it doesn't exist. The Olmec are a phenomenon on their own. There's no connection with China. There's no connection with your Europe. Uh, and there's no connection with anybody else. So it's a bit of a challenge, uh, to deal with. But when you say in my, my explanation for why are these, these phenomenons, these megalithic cultures in. Every major country, except really America, United States of America, um, is the fact that there was exchange. There were people in boats going from Europe, Middle East to South America. Uh, and we have people on our show all the time that. Uh, show reference to that evidence and artifacts evidence and buildings. Um, I just recently, there was a discussion on Peru and Cusco and sexy woman, which has these monstrosities is monolithic size walls, and the stones are 50, 500 tons. And they're perfectly fitted. Well, it's the same thing we see at the Osirian building in Egypt. The same exact stone masonry was used there. Well, why are they similar? How are they similar? It's very likely the blueprints or the technology was passed along. We just can't accept it if we look at today's historians because they cannot think outside of the box. There are museums, especially in the United States, that are filled with artifacts that, because they can't explain them, they hide them away from the public. That's why I love going to Mexico. If you go to the Mexican museums, you see figurines holding technology, wearing suits, looks like space suits or Sub Zero suits. You see them sitting in aircraft of some kind. You see anomalous figures and artifacts. That would never be allowed to be seen in the United States because we cannot allow anyone else to change the narrative. That history starts and ends and these are the civilizations that were around and anything before 90, 000 years ago or pre dynastic Egyptians or Sumerians, uh, were hunters and gatherers. So,
cristian_1_04-11-2024_144751:Well, and I think it's interesting to see the tide shift from, you know, becoming sort of the, the mainstream view being challenged by other aspects of science that just are doing their own thing and then just trample through, uh, some of these things, for instance, the, uh, finding of genetic similarities between, um, South American populations and Polynesian populations that just like append the sort of crossing of the Bering Strait, uh, story and the Clovis first, you know, uh, aspect of, of, or theory of how America got settled. Um, and. But that's just because some geneticist was doing his job or their job or her job. And, uh, but you could apply the same thing for linguistics and find linguistic patterns, you know, that match, you know, and the fact that all languages basically in the world come from, um, the Indo European family, which, you know, how it goes all the way back to Sanskrit. Um, it really just starts painting a very different picture of, of how we see ourselves and, um, And how it informs our relationship with the world. How do you think, so what do you, what do you make of this? I, I personally find this a little bit distressing, right? Like, so what is actually going on? And why doesn't anybody seem to care
Track 1:Well, the thing is, it's like anywhere now, it really has to do with Western points of view. We tend to be the, the focal point for the world right now because we're the most wealthy, the most, uh, outward projecting culture. And so our views are the right views. And so we ignore South American scientists. Who believe that and and have shown that there was a whole migration thousands in the years ago that came up from Antarctica, a whole different hominid and populated South America and then populated Mexico. We don't talk about that we don't we don't talk about the hominids that have been discovered in China, because we're the United States and our views are the right views. So we're going to ignore everybody else. But there's a whole. level of discovery in each major continent that really, uh, puts into question, uh, our development of, as a race of hominins, human beings. And like there's skeletal remains of a very unusual, uh, homo sapien that is found in Australia, who has a longer head, has, uh, they've discovered that he has more brain mass. There's the Paracas people of Peru who have cone shaped heads that have 30 percent more brain mass than we do. thought that they were, uh, migrants from, uh, Egypt. Because some of the, some of the early people in Egypt had elongated heads. So we don't hear about these things because they call into question the narrative that we've been given the Western culture and narrative about how we have evolved, you know, and you know, where we come from. And it's, it's a lot of, it's just guesswork, complete guesswork. And, you know, these professors who are teaching this, Uh, have their careers to look at it. They start questioning. Books that are, uh, 100, 150 years old, that's the foundation for historians, then they could lose their tenure, which is too bad. So, um, there is a lot to question. Go ahead.
cristian_1_04-11-2024_144751:do you think it's, um, you see this, um, sensitivity, um, toward alternate explanations more so in certain disciplines than others? So, for instance, I don't see the same kind of institutional, uh, wall, garden walling, uh, in other fields like engineering or computer science, but you do see it happen in archaeology where there's like, nothing has changed. Like there's no, there's no like breakthrough in archeology that has upended our understanding of who we are officially, um, in forever. And the same with physics. And why do you think it's some, but not all?
Track 1:I think it's, it is, there are incremental movements and changes that are taking place in history. Um, but, it, the trickle down. takes a while from new discoveries, confirming discoveries, confirming the change in the paradigm, and then that information getting into history books.
cristian_1_04-11-2024_144751:hmm.
Track 1:The bigger problem is that we have out of touch, uh, publications like the National Geographic, the Smithsonian Institute, that perpetuates lies, that perpetuates the wrong narrative. Uh, they, they want to keep the hunter gatherer. Uh, stone age man in America, no older than 12 to 15, 000 years in the past, forgetting that there are indigenous archaeologists who are making discoveries in the United States that show that native populations were here 150, 000 years ago.
cristian_1_04-11-2024_144751:Hmm.
Track 1:and are writing about it. But again, it's the trickle down. So when you say there's no changes that are being made, there are changes. It just takes a period of time for it to be accepted. Remember, we, we have to use the scientific method on a lot of this. And that means that you have to be able to reproduce it. You have to be able to question it. It's, and that's a part of me is bullshit. Because it takes a lot of time, it takes a lot of research, and it takes a body of people to say, yes, yes, you're right. This isn't quite right. We need to change the theory. So there are changes that are being made. They're being changed every week. There's something that's new that's being changed. It's just that it, it takes time for us to get the information in our hands. Or you can listen to earth agents.
cristian_1_04-11-2024_144751:There we go. Well, I was going to, I was going to make a point similar to that. That is like, I think with we, I think we're only beginning to see the effect of something like YouTube in the world where all of a sudden it's, it's Uh, the information comes in floods, you know, there's a new story that breaks and you get all a kaleidoscope of perspectives around it that are from independently driven people to comment on certain things like, Oh, I found this inconsistency. I found this other inconsistency. And so as we're Not only are ideas spreading faster, but the entire process seems to be moving faster, too, at a dizzying pace, right? And so, like, you see this happen, I mean, like, just think of smartphones 10 years ago. Uh, it's almost impossible, it's hard to, hard to imagine how much the world has changed. And we live through it. Um, And, but then, you know, I think of the coming age of I, I think of, you know, advances in military technology, uh, in, you know, like, uh, simulating information spread and things like that. Um, I am both excited about the possibility of a new system that is sort of like a faster version of getting at consensus truth, um,
Track 1:Yeah. You just mentioned it though. Christian, you just mentioned it. AI, somebody someday is going to fine tune AI and punch in something like new research on, uh, ancient civilizations. And they're going to get a, a. an AI system that goes beyond just what is known and can begin to analyze theories, hypothesis, and discoveries and bring it all together. I know this because I'm using a new AI writing tool that can take the styles from a number of well known authors and combine your mine together. into making unique, uh, written pieces. In fact, books. So all we need to do is fine tune AI. To be the feelers, the spiders who go out and find data and then go beyond what is acceptable through this programming into what is possible.
cristian_1_04-11-2024_144751:No, I think it's, it's this exciting new kind of, you know, Thing in the world where we're going to have a flood of information because AI is going to enable the production of more things of higher quality over time. And so there's going to be an infinite amount of good stuff to consume and to learn about and to, and to analyze. Um, but then you're going to need an AI to be able to filter all that stuff. To find the thing that is most relevant for to you right now. And so you have this sort of arms race situation going on. Um, and then, you know, there's all the complications around like, who's building the AI, how is it fair? How is it, you know, how do we know that there's no hidden stuff somewhere in there that benefits us? Some people over others. Um, I think it's exciting and, and, but a little terrifying, right? I think like it's, you know, I think it's going to be an interesting next couple of years. Um, but I think it's, it, it all strikes me as these very interesting convergence of things. It's like, we're finding out who we really are. And, and I think that's the broader theme that I'm sensing. And, and I think that's why it ties us. Transcribed Into this idea of personal growth, too. And I see the alignment so well is that, okay, when you find out who you really are, you hope you put in the work. You hope you tried. You hope, you know, like, what did you live up to your expectations of yourself? Um, and I think that there's, there's a, there are two halves of the same coin. So I think it's awesome that you're exploring both. Um,
Track 1:Well, they actually fit in quite nicely. If you, if you do any type of Eastern philosophy, if you meditate, when you meditate, This is why I wish more people would meditate. You open to the possibilities of new things, new theories, new science, new discoveries. And they're more acceptable because you see them in a different light. I think the problem with our culture right now is we're too tied into YouTube, TikTok, watching TV. And we're not quieting our brain down enough to accept and take in more data.
cristian_1_04-11-2024_144751:No. And, and there's another component there too. That is that you start questioning how much you think, you know, right? It's just how it's shockingly how little we actually know. Um, let's talk about the motivation to, you know, take these interests of yours and actually, you know, deciding to put yourself out there and starting a platform where you can actually start talking to people about this. What was, what was the early days of the podcast? Like,
Track 1:uh, well, the Earth Ancients is celebrating its 10th year and, uh, at the end of this month, early May, I launched it. And, um, I had been interested in ancient history for, since I was very young. My grandfather had a wonderful library of early Native Americans. traditions, uh, ancient cultures, uh, and anomalous discoveries. People like Charles Fort, who was an early turn of the century explorer. He had all his books. So my grandfather was a big influence on me. Um, then I worked in, I'm here in Northern California, so I worked in tech for Jesus. I had my own business. I worked for a couple of technology companies, uh, and I wasn't really suited for that environment. Um, I'm an, I basically an artist. I was trained as an artist. I got a degree in illustration and later I got another degree in, um, uh, business marketing because, uh, I was good with putting ideas behind products,
cristian_1_04-11-2024_144751:Hmm. Hmm.
Track 1:but somewhere in the middle of that, I became disillusioned with working for other people and I started working for a. international conference called Whole Life Expo, which was based in San Francisco, and I became the program director after about a year, and that was a six city tour that included personal growth topics, uh, ancient civilizations, wellness, and spirituality, and kind of a mix of other things. And at its peak in the Mid to late 90s into the early 2000s, it drew, you know, 30 to 40, 000 people. It's at the end of the New Age period, the hippie period, 60s, 70s, 80s. The, the, uh, the New Age was opening your mind, taking hallucinogens if you couldn't get it through meditation. And so period was very influential on me, but also fun because I was able to reach out and find these cutting edge authors, people like Deepak Chopra, Wayne Dyer, Marianne Williamson. And it was fun because the producer was very open and allowed me to also bring in the early researchers who were ex military that were looking at UFOs. And things like that. So, so that was an influence on me. And then after doing, so I had this database of seven, eight years of understanding the movers and shakers and how to bring them out and how to find them. So I have a little bit of advantage over other podcasters. Who might be starting out and going, I'd sure like to have that person on my podcast. But for me, it's like I just go after them
cristian_1_04-11-2024_144751:mm
Track 1:I tell'em who I am and I speak to them, or I, I take it one step. Li uh, uh, uh, further, my producer is in Hollywood and she's a ex, uh, studio, uh, publicist. And so I have her, and she also works in a, in a, in the bookie, uh, in the book publishing industry as well. So constant flow of. of material coming, constant, uh, connection. And so I launched the, uh, Earth Ancients in 2014. as a support for clients that I was also helping launch their podcast. And at that time, and I don't know how far you go back if you remember, in the very early stages of podcasting, there were platforms that allowed you to, you could either record live and it was distributed over the hosting platform, or you could record it. Have it come back and edit it and then place it on a, uh, server to be distributed, uh, all over the place. And so I was helping other people and through that help I learned how to fine tune my own podcast I had, uh, who are well known, uh, psychiatrists. I also did a couple of conferences. And so I had a couple of two to three different podcasts that I worked on and I also launched my own. So, and it turns out that for years as a program director for, uh, conferences, I was always behind the curtains as a producer, right? But I had, I had heard and listened to people who had really good delivery, knew what to ask, and so I kind of learned from them. And when I started Earth Ancients, if you go way back and listen to some of the early, Podcasts are very inquisitive, you know, uh, and also the
cristian_1_04-11-2024_144751:you mean like a prosecutor on a stand? Like, is that what you mean?
Track 1:no, no, not, not, uh, not prosecuting them, but more, um, people ramble too much. One of the things about podcasting, there's two sides of it. There's a short podcast. Some people do 20 minutes, 30 minutes. Other people like Joe Rogan does three hours. Uh, WF, WTF, what the fuck, podcast does two hours. I, that's to me, I, I just, I can't carry the energy that long. Most of my podcasts are six minutes because you know, you, you're, you're putting the energy into your questioning. And if you're not getting the feedback or the, or the answer that you want, Then you have to deliver another question that gives, you have to be part of the audience, also the host, right? So you know who your audience is. They want a certain level of clarity. that's the, that's the beauty of radio, TV, and podcasting is getting clarity on a subject. So
cristian_1_04-11-2024_144751:And I think there's, there's, well, I've found so many learnings just in my brief journey into it that it's, it's just, I can't imagine what 10 years does to you. Um, like in terms of, um, ability to, you know, keep a conversation going if the, if the energy isn't quite there, you know, fortunately not too much of that, um, but has happened. Um, then the, I mean, like the, innumerable steps of production that are very easy to overlook. There's like the guest outreach, guest pipeline and scheduling. There's, uh, you know, actually preparing for the interview and making sure that there's rapport and then actually conducting the interview and doing the live dual, you know, wearing the three hats at the same time where your producer audience and, and person talking to another human, uh, um, and then the post processing thing, which is editing and then adding whatever, you know. Beautification things you might want to add to it. You know, an intro, a monologue, episode descriptions with references. I mean, it's a, it's a decent amount of work and there's no good tooling for like there, I was very surprised that like, you know, like there's only beginning to be a class of tools that are, you know, sort of better for podcasters, but for
Track 1:it's funny you
cristian_1_04-11-2024_144751:imagine what it was like 10 years ago. Yeah.
Track 1:Oh, in the beginning we would gather. You're, I mean, uh, you're part of the, uh, San Francisco or the Bay Area Podcasting Association, uh, through meetup at its height, there would be up to 50 people on those meetings who are just beginning, who are questioning, by the way, Mike is one of the, our, our, uh, director or the, uh, uh, manager, he's one of the better hosts or the, uh, who runs that meetup, uh, in the beginning, it was all about technology. I'm sorry.
cristian_1_04-11-2024_144751:I just said, yeah, he's great. Yeah.
Track 1:Yeah, he's great. No, he brings in good people. He talks about technology and brings in some old dogs like me and others who can be open to those who are being introduced to it because there, there really isn't a school. It's really a creative art form. And that's why I tell people is that it really, you really need to sit down. And not necessarily write a business plan, but you need to write what do I want to express because this is, it's a piece of entertainment, but it's also a piece of, um, of, uh, content that you're producing as a host and a producer that has, like you say, a beginning of an end and an ending, but do you want to, you know, how do you design Do you want it to be, uh, talk the whole time? Do you want to have music breaks? Do you want to have information breaks? I mean, if you go and listen to, uh, NPR, they have 15 or 20 breakout podcasts, each unique, each produced by a specific producer, and the sky's the limit. And that's the beauty of podcasting. When you're doing radio, you're adherent to specific kinds of laws. You can't swear, you can't use certain types of dialogue, you, uh, you can't get too political. I mean, the podcasting is its own entity. And that's why it's so popular, because people can just let it rip.
cristian_1_04-11-2024_144751:No, it's the best. And you get to actually see It doesn't feel rushed, as some other things feel, and you get to have a conversation where, um, you sort of start seeing the entirety of the person who's saying something, not just what they said, um, and I think that, like, uh, you know, And I think this is, you know, like we're in this particular stage of the development of this new media type where it's now like the most powerful, uh, you know, uh, public opinion, uh, inform, informing thing out there more than cable news, more than books, more than public education. Um, and, and. I think it's really crazy because we'll see and, you know, what the next thing is. And so it's really interesting to see, um, how those things evolve. Right. And like, well, one of the things that I've always, that has always stood out to me is how much of the long form content gets repurposed, you know, clipped. And compilations and, uh, so many ways to repackage the same stuff. And what I like about podcasts is it forces you to have the best conversation you can now, and like the most insightful conversation you can have now. Um, adding up all the layers of like, you know, like. We're across the bay from each other, but we're doing this virtually. And like, you know, we come from very different cultural backgrounds. It's just crazy. You know, it's pretty weird time to be alive.
Track 1:Cool though, because people get a sense of who you are as the host. You develop, uh, a collective of listeners, and they look forward to hearing how you interact with the other person. They want to know how Christian is, what's on his mind today, why did he invite this guest on his show? And more importantly, what does he find interesting? Intriguing enough to have this individual and in his matrix, in Christian's matrix, how does it add dimension to who you are and your podcast? So you create it, you're creating your own little world. And, and the more you do it, the more you do it, the more, the more you grow and you have a following. And that's, you know, it's kind of cool.
cristian_1_04-11-2024_144751:that's super cool. I'm excited to get there. The, uh,
Track 1:Year one. I mean, as before it's consistency, it's passion. If you don't have passion, you're going to, you know, and I've, I've talked to a lot of people that are like, well, I think I'll do it once a month. I'm like, oh my God. And then I think I'll do it once a week, but then I'll skip a week. I know I'm going on vacation. It has to be your lifeblood. It has to be, it has to be, uh, who you are. I mean, here's your arm, your head. Here's your podcast. An implant like a
cristian_1_04-11-2024_144751:Let's talk about consistency a little bit, because it's something that I've historically been very good at. Um, but with podcasting, I think that it's been, uh, an interesting negotiation where the trade off between quantity and quality. So I want to constantly try and make every episode better, the production quality, better, everything like that. But if you're pushing the limit, as I was doing two episodes a week at the beginning, um, there's no time for innovation. There's no time for. Exploring something different, spending a
Track 1:Don't
cristian_1_04-11-2024_144751:more
Track 1:say that. That's not true. I'm sorry to say that. There's
cristian_1_04-11-2024_144751:all right, this is what we need. Yeah,
Track 1:oh, I mean, if you, if you're saying there's no time for innovation, then you're screwed. If you're working, say you're working nine to five, I can't remember. You told me you used to, I think you used to work at Google. Uh, I have friends that work at Google. That's a demanding company. A few years ago, they wanted you to practically live there. They had places you could sleep, get your meals, dry cleaning, babysitting. And so in that kind of environment, yeah, it's like, I don't have enough left to be innovative. But if you think of it like. Life, like it being a form of nourishment to do each show, then you can incorporate it into your life. So as an example, say you're working, you're at your, your job, you're thinking, what am I, what's the theme? What am I going to talk about this week? What's in the news? What are you, what's the show about? What are you passionate about this stuff? I swear to God, if you're thinking about developing a show, it kind of bubbles up in different places, little, little ideas. little, little, uh, little news, uh, streams. Um, I mean, I love tick tock. I love the internet. I love, uh, YouTube. You're right. It can be overwhelming, but you'll be surprised once you set an intention for receiving data. To make up your shows, it'll start flowing. I swear. You cannot just sit back and go, come to me,
cristian_1_04-11-2024_144751:Mm hmm.
Track 1:have to activate it through intention and it's like set it every morning, maybe before you get out of bed. I intend to receive today's data or I intend, I intend for today to, to roll. Uh, elegantly or something like that, whatever fits your persona and little bits of information come up.
cristian_1_04-11-2024_144751:hmm.
Track 1:So, I mean, in my case, I've developed that kind of a thing where I have music, every show has specific kinds of music. I have, I used to have a mute, uh, a news that I, I dialed it back, but it's just every week. I have somebody helping me, of course. It's just the flow. What are we going to do? Oh, okay. So, you can do it. I can see it in your face. ha.
cristian_1_04-11-2024_144751:Oh, no, no, no. I, now that I found my weekly cadence, I definitely, a lot of the stuff that you're saying now resonates a bit more, I think. So I was doing two a week and upholding two a week, even with taking time off. So that meant I had to front load a whole bunch of stuff and, you know, and I was doing everything myself. So I think I just got a little bit ahead of myself and put the cart before the horse. Um, but now that I have a bit more, uh, bandwidth, then. I fully subscribe to the, to the notion of, uh, letting the, the really curious things stand out and quieting the things that feel to be noise. Um, surprising, surprising and shocking amount of insight there. Um, it's been perhaps like that alone perhaps has been the greatest. This technological discovery of the past year or so in my life, like being able to let the little synchronicities and, uh, So, uh, you know, the little, the little, um, uh, coincidences line up just the right way and interpret them in just the right way that, um, that feels like you're on the right track. Right. Um, well, Cliff, what are, what are some of the biggest lessons you've learned? Podcasting.
Track 1:Um, I think that the technology that's being developed is more helpful than, I used to not really want to have a lot of editing tools. Up until very recently, the requirements for self editing were complicated uh, software applications like, uh, Adobe Audition. Or, I don't know if you've ever seen it before. You're a tech guy, so maybe it doesn't, it doesn't bother you, but somebody who's not a techie would be so intimidated by that. And then there's other editing tools that just take too much bandwidth. And what has happened is there are companies in Germany. I use, um, I think you heard about this is I use the Hindenburg to do sound editing and it's brilliant. It's almost intuitive.
cristian_1_04-11-2024_144751:We'll check it out. Hmm,
Track 1:this has been a remarkable discovery for me because. I used to run it through two different kinds of editing and that didn't always work, you know. And so what seems to be the best solution is the most simple solution for, uh, for, uh, podcasting and the most, and this is really a big one for me. I think I told you this last time we talked is that sound is everything. If you are coming through and your, the quality of your voice is, is, uh, is unique and solid, people hear that. If your guest is waving off and is fluctuating, people don't like that. So your editing tool should bring them as clear as you are coming across. You and your guest should be clear. And it's funny because when people start hearing that, They really fall into line and become, uh, very attracted to your work. That's all. That's like, it's
cristian_1_04-11-2024_144751:that's so interesting. I mean, I really have been, I feel very lucky that I started with the tools that are already available because I think, I don't know if I would have been able to navigate all the different little decisions. That you need to make before you commit to it. Um, because this is sort of like you have to commit first and then you actually do it. And then you overcome all the little barriers. Um, and I don't know. It's just been an incredibly rewarding journey so far. And I feel very lucky that I got to meet people like you who've been doing it, who's been doing it for 10 years now. And, uh, and get to be a part of this community. And, uh, and it feels like, you know, it feels like the right next step. So it's, it's very
Track 1:for you. You said the right words, buddy. You said rewarding. That's perfect. If you're being, if you're being fulfilled by the work, that's the bottom line. The other thing to remember though, this is a creation that you are putting forth to others. This is your creation. So it's really you. That they're listening to, although your genre, your theme, your guests are presenting a topic. It's who you are. It's your show. It's your creation. And in essence, it's your child.
cristian_1_04-11-2024_144751:Goodness still freaks me out a little bit. Um, all right. Any last words of wisdom? Well, how about this? How about this? How about, um, what can we learn from our past or about questioning our past that will help us navigate the future?
Track 1:I think that our past is our teacher. And if we ignore our teacher, they were doomed to repeat the past. And that can be. Anything you're thinking of wars, relationships, how we go about treating our, uh, one another, the sky's the limit. So in my case, I've always questioned history from the Bible to our textbooks. And I don't know if it's because, you know, and this sounds kind of funny that I lived in the past. Many past lives, and I'm coming forward to say, hey, that's not the way it was. This is really the way it was or whatever, but to acknowledge, understand, and really dig a little deeper into the previous civilizations and understand them a little better, I think they lived more harmoniously than we do now. We're very out of sync, and this is why there's so much illness. is that we are out of sync, out of body, and in many cases out of touch. So when we look to the past, our ancestors were much more in touch with not only the earth, but how to live, what it means to be a human being. So
cristian_1_04-11-2024_144751:That is, that is fantastic. Mr. Cliff Dunning, thank you so much for your time. I look forward to doing this again soon.
Track 1:thanks, Christian. Thanks for inviting me.